Ruby Wednesday

[browngirl]

First of all, if you're reading this and you commented on one of my stories recently, thank you. I'm behind on replying to comments, but I should catch up soon. When I've finished this latest drabble offer I'll likely post a new one, probably early next week.

I also have some longer stories in the works, but spring is a busy time for me (I work in a school), so I'll put them out there when I can.

And now, a writing discussion question or two:

1) How do you plan out your stories? (And do you? Some people don't.)

2) How do you differentiate in your story's text between what a characterr thinks and what you the author think?

My own answers are fortthcoming shortly. :D

Comments

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

Whee! Thank you! I was finding fandom discussions in sad lack on my flist today, lol! ;-D

1. I plan my stories by daydreaming about them (it's like a movie that plays in my head). Sometimes I'll just jot down random notes and sometimes I just go and write a "skeleton" of the story.

2. If a character is thinking...er...I try to keep the text in the character's voice in general, but sometimes I have clear, dialogue-like thoughts and those I might put in italics...I don't usually bring my own thoughts into it because I tend to write in POV (like Frodo's POV), but I suppose I'm lazy sometimes and my own thoughts just come out..:-)

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

I'm always glad to please. :D

I think I didn't phrase the second question correctly. I meant something more like "how do you make sure that your readers know your character's opinions are theirs as characters and not just you speaking through them?" But anyway.

[danachan.livejournal.com]

I love your drabble requests. <3

1) Mostly, I don't. If I think it will be long, then I do, because if I can't see an ending, I likely won't ever be able to reach it. This is why I don't post serial fic all that very often. I'd have to write it through completely before I'd want to post it. I also get a lot of scene-shots, which helps with drabbles. Some folk want to see how they get there. I'm happy enough that they're there.

2) I don't. I mean, I tend to write in POV, so it's always what the character is thinking.

--

Looking forward to your own answers.

Also, speaking of drabble requests: I got stuck on that one I did in January, but they are coming. I am this close to having them all finished, and then I can get them posted.

♥ dear heart.

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

*huggles you tightly* Hey, I took 2 months to do my drabbles, I can hardly criticise anyone else for taking awhile. And I know what you mean about serial fic. I admire people who can post one bit of a story before writing the next. I could *never* do that.

[danachan.livejournal.com]

Well, they will be done. And enjoyed, I can only hope. As for people who post before the next chapter is written, well, I definitely am with you on that one. No idea how they can do it. I need some sort of groundwork done, and having it finished before I worry about posting is such a relief. You know?


*hugs*

[mordelhin.livejournal.com]

1. Similar to Claudia, my stories usually start out as daydreams of a scene or two. Once I can see those clearly, I'll try to plot out the rest of the story in an outline, fill in gaps, create backstory, etc. But the outline tends to change, as I daydream other scenes that may go in a different direction than where I thought the story was going. Generally, I can't start writing a scene until I shift away from thinking in images and begin to think in words - usually just the opening few sentences will do to get me started. For whatever reason, this occurs most frequently in the shower.

2. I've never really though about this. I tend to write in a character's POV, so if my thughts as the author show through, I'd say I was doing it wrong.

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

*nod* I often think in words, so I daydream scenes and stuff as well but I often get phrases and images I can scribble down for later use.

I didn't ask the second question well, I think. As I said to Claudia, what I meant by it was something more like "how do you make sure that your readers know your character's opinions are theirs as characters and not just you speaking through them?"

[mordelhin.livejournal.com]

OK - #2 makes more sense to me now. I think that my voice comes through in the first draft, when I'm most interested in getting the raw ideas down. These tend to be statements that are definitely more "telling" than "showing" and so are easily recognizable to me. They get weeded out in the revision process, either tossed out completely or reworked to fit the voice and experience of the POV character. I suppose my readers are the ones who can tell me just how successful I've been in that area.

So, my own answers

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

And soon I'll reply to my replies *wave to Dana and Claudia and Mordelhin*


1) How do you plan out your stories? (And do you? Some people don't.)

Most of my story ideas come from questions I ask myself. "Did Frodo say goodbye to the hobbits he loved, and if he did what form did that goodbye take?" "Merry and Sam are similar ages and have some other similarities. What would their friendship look like?" "If Pippin were a girl, what would she be like?" and so on.

I then write a story summary, and choreography for the sex and/or fights, and notes on themes to remember, points of character to elucidate, page numbers from the book, etc. Then I start writing, with a running summary of each scene below till I'm done.

2) How do you differentiate in your story text between what a characterr thinks and what you the author think?

In fanfic this is not so difficult, at least with well-known charaacters; or, rather, the difficult bit of it is making the characters sound and think like themselves, which is hard but which one needs to do anyway. With characters whom one has mostly or wholly created, however, it's a little more difficult, which is part of why I asked. I guess that the key is, as ever, a strong personality and voice for the characters, such that whatever they say sounds like it proceeds organically from them and not me speaking through them.

Re: So, my own answers

[baranduin.livejournal.com]

Your method is very interesting and organized.

I have rarely done an actual outline. When I do, it tends to be for multi-part fics and tends to be nothing more than bullet points of very sequential actions in the story.

I do sometimes write notes to myself as I'm writing along -- about things I want to remember, about themes that are cropping up. It's interesting that you start out with the themes you want to keep track of. I tend to come up with a scenario or an image or two and then as I write the story, I figure out what the themes are and how the various bits of imagery are connected to each other thematically.

I'm trying out something new right now re an original fic I've gotten enamored of. I've got a spiral notebook and I scribble in it every day -- thoughts about characters, plot, questions around setting, bits of scenes written in character's voices to try them out -- but I'm not writing the actual story yet. Actually I've told myself that I may not write an official draft until I fill up the notebook with scribblings which I suspect might end up being some sort of odd combination of notes and outlines and rough drafts of scenes.

Re your second question, I'm not sure I'm understanding it very well. My sense is that if I wanted my own opinion known, I wouldn't be writing a story so much as an essay. Though my own opinion of the various characters is bound to come through as I write them ... I guess that's just my own interpretation of them, if that makes any sense :-)

Re: So, my own answers

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

I'm only organized out of self-defence. If I weren't organized I'd get *nothing* done. I'd just flail helplessly. :D

Yay spiral notebooks!

I could kick myself, because as I read people's replies I realize that I really didn't ask the second question well. I meant something more like "how do you make sure that your readers know your character's opinions are theirs as characters and not just you speaking through them?" In fanfic, this is often easier---if Lotho says something awful, no one will think I agree with it, because we all know he's supposed to be a jerk. But if I have Rosie say something about a woman's place, bla bla, that would sound very anti-feminist if said here and now but would fit the Shire's culture, I want to make sure no one thinks I'm not a feminist.

(Maybe I can't guarantee it. Stories do have lives of their own, after all.)

partial thoughts

[strangerian.livejournal.com]

I've had good, but usually slow, results from just writing from a starting point, and sooner or later finding a plotline or expressing the theme inherent in the opening situation or combination of characters. Alternatively, I might have a definite ending in mind, but I'll have to discover a lot of how the characters get there in the course of the writing.

The story should be all about what the characters are and how they think. I don't usually comment in an authorial voice. Of course, the characters are likely to share some of my mindset, given that I'm making them up and choosing to spend a lot of time with them, but often they don't think or react as I would in a given situation.

Re: partial thoughts

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. Very few of my stories develop without an outline at the start (though I feel free to leave the outline whenever the story would benefit) but some of those that have have been among my best. Hmmm.

I *so* didn't phrase that question correctly. I meant something along the lines of "how do you make sure that your readers know your character's opinions are theirs as characters and not just you speaking through them?" But anyway.

Re: partial thoughts

[strangerian.livejournal.com]

how do you make sure that your readers know your character's opinions are theirs as characters and not just you speaking through them?

A fair questions, but not an answerable one for me. It's obvious that some stories, maybe most stories, can be given vastly different interpretations depending on the reader's assumptions going in. I can try to make a character consistent enough (or canonical enough, if that applies) that any behavior will be obviously in-character for that character, not pasted on -- but short of making the character obviously a bad'un within the story, I don't know how to signal to readers that I might disagree with the story character's actions.

[illyria-novia.livejournal.com]

1) Once I come up with what exactly it is I want to get across with the story, I plan how to bring that point to the front. Sometimes it takes two or three changes before I get the message approximately the way I want it to be, through alteration of POV or storytelling (like from inner dialog to "show don't tell" method). I seek for symmetry and balance in the story, a sense of coming to a satisfactory ending, a tying up of various strands that make up the story, a tightrope-walker kind of teetering-ness to avoid plunging into overdoing anything, the angst, the fluff, whatever--if that makes any sense.:) I usually have the basic structure of the story when I start writing, and it oddly feels like a physical structure that I actually build with the words and sentence.

2. As far as I'm trying to get the characters to get my message across, I try to stick as closely as possible to the characters' speech pattern and juggle around with "Yes, it's plausible that he thinks/says this" and "Nah, he wouldn't say this to save his life"... Is this what you wanted to know? I think I got the question wrong somehow, but I don't thinkI've ever put my own opinion blatantly in any fic I wrote.

Is it too late to request a drabble? :)

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

That sort of balanced, graceful planning makes sense, considering the finished, polished tales. :)

It's not that you misunderstood the question, but that I asked it badly. What I meant was more like "how do you make sure that your readers know your character's opinions are theirs as characters and not just you speaking through them?"

And it's never too late to ask for a drabble. What would you like? :D

[illyria-novia.livejournal.com]

Why, thank you, Ruby! *blushes*

Hmmm...your reply to my second answer made me think. I admit that there are times that I"use" the characters to advocate my causes for me, but once a fic starts, it's not so much me and my mission, but the characters and theirs, and it's the story that matters most, not my personal opinion or aim, although admittedly there are times, especially in my original fiction, that I create some sort of sock puppet for my thoughts and ideas. But it's rather hard to do that with fairly canonized characters in fanfic.

And as for the drabble... Anything with Frodo and Bilbo, please? A Tol Eressean scene would be lovely, but any Frodo and Bilbo would make me happy. Thanks so much, Ruby!

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

It's been a long time coming, but I hope you like what I eventually wrote. :)

http://www.livejournal.com/users/rubynye/120170.html

[serai1.livejournal.com]

Interesting questions!

1) I don't. No plotting, no outline, as little thought as possible before the fact. There have been a couple of stories that I've pondered ahead of time, and invariably those were the ones that gave me the most trouble. The question of how I actually do it is a bit complicated. It's unequal parts sudden inspiration, involved conversation with characters that I believe have their own existence in some way that I don't completely understand, and a kind of word-jazz riffing. One analogy that just occured to me is that of a surfer - I paddle along in the warm ocean water, waiting for just the right wave so I can pop and ride the curve. When I hit the right moment, it's like rushing down the tunnel of a really grand tube, surrounded by the roar and diamond brilliance, the freezing airy bite of words and the near frightening power of images as they cascade around me. Then I'm out the other end, gasping and laughing in the sun, and fall off my board into the water to wait for the next chance to ride. :D

2) Depends on the story. Most of my stories are first person, so being clear about the character's thoughts necessitates pinpointing his/her voice. Vocabulary, tempo, tone, idioms, mannerisms. When I write a story that's third person, I usually indicate a character's thoughts with the use of italics. It doesn't pay to get too complicated or call too much attention to what you're doing as a writer, so a simple trick like that is usually the best way to go.

Hope that answers your questions. *hug*

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

OK, now I'm picturing you surfing on a giant pencil. :D Seriously, thank you for these answers!

[illyria-novia.livejournal.com]

One analogy that just occured to me is that of a surfer - I paddle along in the warm ocean water, waiting for just the right wave so I can pop and ride the curve. When I hit the right moment, it's like rushing down the tunnel of a really grand tube, surrounded by the roar and diamond brilliance, the freezing airy bite of words and the near frightening power of images as they cascade around me. Then I'm out the other end, gasping and laughing in the sun, and fall off my board into the water to wait for the next chance to ride. :D

I must say that that is a beautiful and breathtaking analogy to describe a writing process.

[ilthit.livejournal.com]

1) Very little. If I end up developing long-reaching plans for a fic, I end up not finishing it.

2) It's difficult, and I have to remind myself to do so. If I get off to a good start, though, I can keep the character thinking like that character, but then they usually run into angst. Dammit.

[rubynye.livejournal.com]

Long-range plans are sticky, aren't they? I banged my head on the eall all the month I spent writing "The Rose and the Book". (So *why* do I want to do it again? *laugh at myself*)

[paceus.livejournal.com]

1) How do you plan out your stories? (And do you? Some people don't.)

I get my ideas as I daydream and think about the characters. They could do this, they could say this, they could have a failure of communication like this. Then I start to write, and I'm all excited and getting the words down: the beginning of the story or, if it's a short one, the whole of it. Then comes the next time to write, and I have no idea where this is heading and what should I write next. Then I think about it, write down a few lines, summaries of scenes; I organize the lines and the thoughts and make an outline for the rest of the story, and then I write it accordingly.

At least, it's been like that this far. Now I'm trying to think less and write more, but I don't know - maybe this is the way I do it and it's ok. Your method certainly sounds familiar.

2) How do you differentiate in your story text between what a character thinks and what you the author think?

Hmm. I think my answer would be character's strong personality and voice, as you say: as I don't think I should be seen in the story, I don't comment on the characters' actions or thoughts. So if there's only one POV and not a lot of interaction between other characters, a story might sound like it was what I thought about things. The different POVs and characters' lines show that I am, in fact, capable of thinking about things from different angles and may not have revealed my own opinions at all.

And then. Of course I'm not invisible, if I'm the author. I could comment on the story line in many ways, for example with a happy or unhappy ending or development: bad characters get what they deserve, good characters get what they deserve, and if Rosie thought the woman's place was somewhere I didn't agree with, she'd learn before the end that she'd been wrong. I haven't really thought about doing such things, because if a character believed something I didn't, I'd not worry about the readers possibly getting it wrong. The other side of this is, what if a character says something I do believe in? I think it might go unnoticed, because it would seem so natural. Then it's only a matter of whether the reader catches it (hey! This character is totally OOC! What is this author doing, coercing her issues in? Stay away from my favourite character!) or not.

Um, I guess that was just a lot of rambling and no answer at all: so, generally I don't do anything to make the readers know that all opinions are not mine, because it should be a given - and if I, without my knowing it, soak the story with my world view, then at least in fanfiction it probably shows in a very bad way indeed.