Politics and Religion

[browngirl]

There's so much about this year in politics I should be chronicling, people such as Obama (race and its sociopolitical construction, leadership, speeches and inspiration) Edwards (policies, press as kingmaker/kingbreaker, trustworthiness, his wife's illness) and Kucinich (he looks like a Keebler elf, his wife looks like a Tolkien elf) but I did want to write about one thing.

At first blush, the way people use religion against candidates is really annoying. With so many legitimate reasons to oppose Romney, why focus on that he's a Mormon? (Not least because it lets pro-Romney people accuse anyone who doesn't like him of religious bigotry. I wouldn't care if he worshipped Godzilla, I saw enough of what he was like in charge when he was MA's Governor, a post he now repudiates, I've seen that to him the only 'good' immigrants are the ones working on his landscaping, and I don't want him as our next president!)

Then there are religions people aren't even members of. Obama keeps being accused of being a Muslim, which leaves him in the unenviable position of saying he's not without dumping on Islam. It would be like continually being accused of being a Latvian or something, where one has to say, "no I'm not Latvian, not that there's anything wrong with Latvia", only with the added fillip that Latvia is not nearly as charged of a concept as Islam in the US today. I wish I could write, "if he were a Muslim what would that matter?" but I'd be being specious to do so; it would definetely matter.

I'm not even sure I could say all the ways in which it would matter would be ways in which it shouldn't, and here we get to my own moments of religion giving me pause. I could see how having a Muslim president could worry people, not least because Huckabee's fundamentalist Christianity frightens me. At first I thought I was being unfair to him, but I wonder if this is a case where I should listen to what I really do know from my Christian childhood; there are legitimate reasons to be wary of someone who likely would use the considerable power of the Presidency to promote the teaching of Creationism, the deprication of stem-cell research, the destruction of reproductive rights and the "protection of Marriage" with all that implies for the erosion of GLBT people's civil rights. But am I being too permissive with myself? These are legitimate reasons to be wary of several of the Republican frontrunners, and though all these policies are designed to appeal to a certain powerful form of fundamentalist Christianity they actually aren't as bound to it as both fundamentalism's adherents and opponents tend to believe they are. Do I really need to bring up Huckabee's beliefs in listing all the reasons he scares me, or am I doing the same thing as people who bring up Romney's Mormonism do? Would worrying about having a Muslim president be a matter of prejudice or policy?

And so, as I try to live and vote ethically, I'm thinking about all this.

Comments

[jenny_evergreen]

If Huckabee said he was this type of Christian, but that his policies would not be linked to it, that would be something else. Then, of course, it's a matter of trust as to whether the person means it or not, and each person would have to decide for zirself. The same thing with a Muslim running for president; what kind of Muslim is the person and are the beliefs of their stripe of Islam going to directly influence their positions or not?
If yes, then it's an issue. If not, then it's not, except insofar as people trust that the person is speaking the truth.
As far as I know, every president in my lifetime has been at least nominally Christian, and every single time they go all "God" this or that, I cringe, but I also know that there are plenty of liberal Christians out there.
So, in sum, it's not the religion, it's the stances and whether they are dictated by any religion, or by the genuine needs and desires of the people.

[dandelion-diva.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes! Exactly. :)

Love you both.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

*hugs you tightly* Love you too.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

If Huckabee said he was this type of Christian, but that his policies would not be linked to it, that would be something else.

*nod* Part of what scares me (which I should have explicitly said in my post) is that he's actually said the opposite, that his policies would be linked to what-he-sees-as Christian tenets.

Every US president has at least paid lip service to Christianity, because in this country they simply have to. But yeah, you're exactly right, it's about whether religion and policy are linked or not.

[jenny_evergreen]

*nod* Exactly. Thus you are not at all doing the sort of thing you would not be happy with others for doing. :)

[aprilkat.livejournal.com]

Thought-provoking!

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah. *wry smile* I wish it were a more academic question, though.

[hanseth.livejournal.com]

Huckabee's a nutjob. I understand why you're second-guessing yourself, but trust your instincts. He's said, over and over, that he actively wants to change the United States Constitution to be more in line with "God's laws" as he interprets them, and we know from his political history how he interprets them. I am scared of that.

Romney... I'm not so sure. I suspect that the political pressure to NOT be Mormon would keep him from doing anything too drastic. But Romney's policies also make me cringe.

What jenny_junipurr said: "it's not the religion, it's the stances and whether they are dictated by any religion, or by the genuine needs and desires of the people."

I really like what you said about Obama - it's a little like gay-baiting, isn't it? "No, I'm not gay... not like there's anything wrong with that." Ugh.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Huckabee's a nutjob. I understand why you're second-guessing yourself, but trust your instincts.

Obeekaybee. :)

Romney has always struck me as a perfectly secular rich conservative twit, whose personal beliefs happen to be Mormon. It's not like he tried to Mormonize MA, he just tried to block same-sex marriage here.

And about Obama--- gay-baiting is totally the metaphor I should have used. It's precisely the same process.

[cellio]

It's not (usually) the religion itself; it's how the candidate uses it, and whether you trust him to tell the truth about that. My "usually" qualification is that a candidate who's a dedicated member of a religion that calls for actions that would be criminal or offensive is either a hypocrit or a liar and should not be in a position of power.

Obama shouldn't respond with "I'm not a Muslim" for the reasons you gave. He should, however, say "actually, I'm a (whatever)", and play it as being proud of that and not wanting to mislead the public. (I assume he's some flavor of Christian, as he wouldn't have been able to get this far otherwise.)

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Obama shouldn't respond with "I'm not a Muslim" for the reasons you gave. He should, however, say "actually, I'm a (whatever)", and play it as being proud of that and not wanting to mislead the public. (I assume he's some flavor of Christian, as he wouldn't have been able to get this far otherwise.)

*nod* That's pretty much what he's been doing, saying, "I'm a member of X Church, and have been for years and years". But still.

[gingicat]

Yeah.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah. :(

The 'game' of politics would be much more fun if it weren't such high stakes.

[autographedcat.livejournal.com]

Kucinich (he looks like a Keebler elf, his wife looks like a Tolkien elf)

I adore you!

[wcg.livejournal.com]

It's the best line I've seen all day!

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

*grin* Thanks. :)

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

*laugh* Thanks. :) When I saw Mrs. Kucinich on The Daily Show that was what I said in shock, and it just seemed to fit.

[redbird]

Yes, Huckabee is a Christian. So are most if not all of the other candidates (whether it's all or some depends on whether you define Mormons as Christian--they do, some non-Mormons don't--and on whether Mike Bloomberg turns out to be running). That's not the problem. The problem is that he's anti-science, anti-gay, and anti-abortion, and has as much as said that he supports theocracy.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Well, but it's not that Huckabee is a Christian --- it's that he's a fundamentalist Christian, which is why I specified. It doesn't surprise me that he says he supports theocracy --- I was taught, during my fundamentalist childhood, that we should be working towards theocracy indeed.

So, is it his religion or his declared policies which alarm me, or is it a distinction without a difference?

[libitina]

If someone were to promote the teaching of Creationism, relegate stem-cell research, and go directly against your gender politics - for any reason, then you would not support that person. That the person is doing so while saying that the constitution should be changed to reflect his personal beliefs (which happen to be religious in this case) is reasonably worrying.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

*nod* OK, then.

[tibicina.livejournal.com]

Here is why bringing up Huckabee's religion is relevant - He's /said/ that he wants to change the constitution to come into line with /his/ religious beliefs. /He's/ made his religion one of the central points of his campaign. I don't know of any other candidate in this election who has done anything even close.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

*nod* OK. That makes a lot of sense. And, thank you. :)

[nsingman.livejournal.com]

The particular faith should be irrelevant. What makes a theocrat dangerous is not the "theo," but the "crat."

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Well, except that the 'theo' really provides a lot of fuel for the 'crat'; what could be more right, more worthy of any measures including oppressing and killing people, than doing God's will? Or so theocrats think.

But the 'crat' is definetely the main problem, I agree with you there.

[fitfool.livejournal.com]

I agree with the others. It's not a candidates religion that matters, but more how their religiong will influence what kind of Presidency we can expect. People had worried that JFK was Catholic and there had never been a Catholic President before. I think some worried he would take orders from the Pope or something. But JFK was very clear about what kind of President he wanted to be. I think this speech (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/40/story_4080_1.html) is an exemplar for how to handle one's religion and holding public office.
"I believe in a President whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, JFK. *admires him once again* Whereas Huckabee has explicitly said, and some of the other candidates more or less too, that he's all for imposing his religious views upon the nation.