browngirl: (Light (iconsdeboheme))
[personal profile] browngirl
A professor at George Washington University is teaching a course called 'Get a Life!: ‘Shippers, Slashers, and Other Media Fans'. As part of this course, students "will also become a participant-observer of an internet fan fiction community (e.g., Full Metal Alchemist or Lord of the Rings)"

While it sounds as if this course is addressing some issues I personally find fascinating, I don't know if I think this is such a great idea, an influx of people joining fandoms just to study them without having any love for them. Especially because of the attitude reflected in the course description:

"And what about those troublesome fans who use some preexisting story as the springboard for their own stories or art: are they authors in their own right, or thieves, or pathetic parasites? How do we compare a fan novella drawing on characters from the Harry Potter universe to such a work as Jean Rhys's critically-acclaimed Wide Sargasso Sea, which rewords the characters of Jane Eyre? These questions will lead us to larger philosophical mysteries, such as the line between knock-off and clever adaptation, or between copyright violation, plagiarism, and scholarly citation. "

So I find this a little alarming. What do you all think?

Date: 2005-10-08 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidsamfan.livejournal.com
I don't think it's alarming at all, actually. For one thing, the professor is deliberately making the students look past "fanfic" to the way that literature has always eaten its own young and reworked stories, and for another I'm willing to bet that it will be a rare student who picks that course without already being a fan. Expect a passel of youngsters looking for easy As, here, not geeks out to bite off heads.

And besides, she's run the course before and nobody even noticed...

Date: 2005-10-08 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rabidsamfan.livejournal.com
You know, going back and reading some of the other course descriptions, I can see why this one has the kind of tone it does. It's like the professors have had to write ads in order to attract students and thrown in all kinds of phrases meant to push buttons of one kind or another. Look at the course on child culture, for example.

Date: 2005-10-08 08:59 pm (UTC)
brownbetty: a teapot (Teapot)
From: [personal profile] brownbetty
Well, it feels a little funny to be on the wrong side of the window, but... I'm sure nothing much will come of it. Thirty students out of the whole of the internet? And students who are probably already interested in fanfiction, given that syllabus.

(Heee! Lee Goldburg discovered the existence of Smurf Fanfiction of ff.net and is gleefully using it to prove that fanfiction sucks! Uh. Lee. Hon.)

Date: 2005-10-08 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wyna-hiros.livejournal.com
But has he found the Brave Little Toaster slash fic yet? xD!

Date: 2005-10-08 09:37 pm (UTC)
brownbetty: (Default)
From: [personal profile] brownbetty
It's the Super Mario-cest slash that'll really break his brain.

Date: 2005-10-09 10:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danachan.livejournal.com
What about the Finding Nemo fish-slash?

Date: 2005-10-09 10:45 am (UTC)
brownbetty: (Default)
From: [personal profile] brownbetty
Aaaahaaaahaaaa....owmyhead.

Date: 2005-10-09 11:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danachan.livejournal.com
buah hah hah.

I'll not find you the link.

Date: 2005-10-09 02:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katarik.livejournal.com
Some of it's actually pretty good... *smirks evilly* Actually, only one that I found was any good. But that one was *very* good.

Date: 2005-10-09 02:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danachan.livejournal.com
hah. Well, I've found two, but I can't find the link for either of them right now -- one of them really wasn't that bad, you know, if you didn't focus on the fact that they were fish. *laughs*

Date: 2005-10-09 02:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katarik.livejournal.com
*laughs*
Did you find the one by IIRC anamuensuis1 (sp?) That was the one I really liked.
I can find the link for you, I think, if you would like.

Date: 2005-10-09 06:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danachan.livejournal.com
Now that I went googling, it seems that I've read them both. So, if links are wanted, they're now both actually available. *laughs*

Date: 2005-10-09 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katarik.livejournal.com
*laughs*
I found myself rereading amanuensis1's Gill/Nemo fic today. And then I read the comments again, and was bitten by a Scar/Simba bunny. ARGH.

Date: 2005-10-08 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katarik.livejournal.com
I read Wide Sargasso Sea for AP World Lit this summer. That book is nothing but published fanfic, and if anyone wants to tell the professor in question that I said so... go *right* ahead.

It does sound alarming, and the students sound as though they have the potential to be really irritating.
But... they might not be. And they might be converted; if I had to do this, I'd pick something I already liked so I'd know what fen were talking about.
Of course, I say that already being a member of fandom, so that probably colors my view.

Date: 2005-10-08 09:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laurelgardner.livejournal.com
I read Wide Sargasso Sea for AP World Lit this summer. That book is nothing but published fanfic, and if anyone wants to tell the professor in question that I said so... go *right* ahead.

Not to mention books like, "Cosette," "Grendel," "Scarlett," or the "Wind in the Willows" sequels. It's the same principal.

Musicians write variations on themes by other composers...painters do renderings of the works of the masters...choreographers re-create the styles of people like Jerome Robbins. Writers are the only artists who don't recognize some form of direct derivative creation as a part of the creative process.

Date: 2005-10-08 09:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katarik.livejournal.com
Grendel was published fanfic, too.

And Scarlett was published fanfic that wasn't *nearly* as good as the original. I liked the book, but... Rhett, especially with the scene where he and Scarlett have sex after they nearly died, just was *not* Rhett.
There were bits I greatly enjoyed of it, though. Overall, I liked the book.

Well. Writers don't *obviously* recognize direct derivative. At least, most don't.

Date: 2005-10-08 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wyna-hiros.livejournal.com
Nice of that guy not to put some bias in that summary. ;D

Date: 2005-10-08 09:24 pm (UTC)
ext_1843: (Default)
From: [identity profile] cereta.livejournal.com
I think it's an ill-phrased comment. I'm not worried about actual effects, but as an educator, I'm kind of wincing.

Date: 2005-10-08 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] karadin.livejournal.com
I am interested in the phraze, stories and art, what is the problem with art, unless you are speaking about manips? I think the only problem is the instructor's bias, which seems to be unfavorable, fic sucks or doesn't suck according to each reader's likes and dislikes, squicks and not-squicks, and everything (even LOTR) could be seen as borrowing from something else, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you make it interesting.

Date: 2005-10-09 08:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mariole.livejournal.com
I think this is a great idea for a course! What a neat way to get students engaged in writing, which everyone agrees is a fading competence. Of course, the course could be totally stupid if the professor does a lousy job, but that's true for every course. However, I could see many people discovering the joy of writing about something--perhaps a character or world that has tugged at their imagination--and being given permission to do so! Wouldn't that be neat?

You're always going to have self-important critics who want to blast everything they see. I've seen this in every kind of writing group or assembly. Unfortunately, some of them might go on to become published critics and live off snark for their livelihoods. Nothing we can do about that, except not read their reviews! But I think the fandom is fascinating, many of the people extremely talented and witty, and it might pose an easier transition from shy writers writing for their journals to the larger world, because of the anonymity allowed by public blogs. So my vote is (not having read the full descripion, just your entry): interesting!

Date: 2005-10-09 09:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aprilkat.livejournal.com
Hmm. It would be funny if the class were full of fandom folks! Might work well against the seeming bias of the professor...

Date: 2005-10-09 10:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danachan.livejournal.com
Maybe just a little alarming.

Date: 2005-10-09 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xclairedelune.livejournal.com
*frown*
who was it, Aristotle or Plato who said "a life too closely examined isn't worth living" ??.

Well, fan-dom too closely examined isn't either...I say either run, follow, or get the hell out of the way...

btw...I still follow your LJ...never get around to commentingm buyt love your writing...
Hope you are well.. I never made it to East Coast this past autumn..but will definitely by next autumn..

Date: 2005-10-10 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chalcopyrite.livejournal.com
While yes, I think the phenomenon of fanfiction and the internet community is a fascinating thing, I am less than eager to play chimp to their Jane Goodall. Perhaps it's only in the wording, not the intent, but how do we decide which ideas or texts or people are sufficiently important is the sort of academic elitism that gets right up my nose. Also, I am looking *really hard* at the implied judgement in the title of the course and in the description of it -- that "troublesome fans" you pulled out is one of them.

Mostly, I think, I just don't like being the one (one of the ones) on the microscope slide, with uninvolved academics going, "Oh look!"

(How devoted can fans be to their chosen topic, without provoking concern or contempt? ::looks suspicious:: This has me waiting for someone to deliberately provoke a flame war or some serious wank. I'd be more worried about it if it was sociology, but still.)

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