browngirl | A Post, A Response, and a Resource.

Thanks for those links. ♥

*blush* Thank you for your comment here, and your supportive comments there, to me and to others. Thank you, a lot.

Thank you for the links, lady. I do not have the personal bandwidth to get involved in that clusterfuck right now (but Jesus when I read through it did I want to say something), but I'm glad to know what's going on, and when I have a moment of spare time I rather think I'll go through the comments on _dahne_'s post and add LJ notes to the profiles of all the people who think zie's clever or enlightened. It's like a neat list of People I Do Not Need to Know, Ever.

Thanks for signal-boosting, again, and if you're involved in this, let me know if there's anything I can do to lend you my support. ♥ Will I see you tomorrow, BTW?

*beams* Hi, milady. I think... there are a lot of people I know who are people of goodwill and sense who think she had a point and so may be swayed into thinking all her points are good. I don't at all want to write them off but I want to say publicly that her actual message is much more pernicious than it may seem at first glance. So.

I hope to be there tomorrow, but I'll have to see. If I'm not, sometime soon. *crosstown hugs*

Thank you for the links. I'm not commenting at the moment because the extent of my response is RAAAAAAAGE FLAIL RAAAAAAAAGE atm, but it's good to know what's going on, even if it's taking a piledriver to what's left of my faith in humanity.

Also, yay for Ruby!fic. :D

*blushes at you* Don't let me ramp up your blood pressure! But now you know, at least.

And, thanks. :)

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swingandswirl - 2011-01-23 17:58 (UTC) - Expand

*hugs tight*

I'm not sorry I missed

_dahne_'s post, but I am sorry that I was not here to at least give you a hug and support.

I do want to say that

foc_u's post and subsequent, concrete example about that Inception fic was amazing and so well done. It really clarified points for me and brought home some things that I hadn't considered before. Very enlightening. Truly.

Thank you, bb!

*hugs*
WN

Oh, goodness. *hugs you back* It was only yesterday, and anyway... this is just a PSA post, really. And you're very welcome. :)

I don't even know how to respond to dahne since the response boils down to 'How the fuck is trying not to be racist and ablist and, I don't know, a decent person equal being too politically correct?'

We at least agree on one thing, the term politically correct has gone on too far since people can say horrible things and then just whine that they don't have to be pc and how dare we try and make them.

Oh, I say unto thee: word.

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temima.livejournal.com - 2011-01-23 04:45 (UTC) - Expand

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flwrpwr-vampyre.livejournal.com - 2011-01-23 04:50 (UTC) - Expand

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temima.livejournal.com - 2011-01-23 16:11 (UTC) - Expand

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flwrpwr-vampyre.livejournal.com - 2011-01-23 16:29 (UTC) - Expand

All I could think of when I read that is 'the lady doth protest too much.' I guess she must have written something that made her look like an idiot.

And/or refused to even consider it when someone objected to something she said. *nod*

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Your icon! Spock looks so cross!

And goodness, yes. I have learned so much, and I feel so much better about this hobby than I did even five years ago, and I wouldn't trade any of that for the world.

Thank you for posting these links. I'm sorry I couldn't lend my support yesterday. I managed to slog through

_dahne_'s original whine and the comments last night, but I was too beat to formulate coherent thoughts, never mind type them out.

You've had a lot to do, not least generating enough heat to not turn into a fangirlcicle. *beams at you* And... yeah. I was really angry, and then I decided to try and do something constructive with that anger, even if just this.

I did try to respond to dahne, but I probably used too many words. Her entire whine struck me as "I don't wanna read about this again!" and I got distracted by elucidating why I think the conversations she's tired of keep appearing over and over.

What I probably should have said was "If you're not interested then use the power of the back button and go away. Other people ARE interested and can survive having a discussion without you."

Yeah, I probably should have said that too. I mean, beyond all the moral, ethical, and socipolitical considerations... no one's holding a gun to her head and making her read these discussions. The only reason to object is if the whole concept of having them is wrong, and I believe that it isn't.

Edited 2011-01-23 03:58 (UTC)

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rabidsamfan.livejournal.com - 2011-01-23 04:10 (UTC) - Expand

I dunno, I thought that post of yours was plenty eloquent. (Which is to say, thank you for it.)

And! Thank you for the other link.

*blush* Thank you, and you're welcome. :)

You know how I feel about this entire thing already, so I won't reiterate it. And I will be checking these links out, thank you!

*hugs you tightly* I know. And, thank you. :)

Thank you for standing up and speaking out about this. I wouldn't have heard about it without your signal boost, and when I got to the post, I went kind of incoherent with disbelief. So thank you for speaking so eloquently about it. I'll be signal-boosting later, and linking to the places that you linked, if you don't mind a copycat!

♥

*blush* Oh, goodness, information is meant to be shared; I posted this to get this out there, and I'm delighted that you're planning to signal boost it!

Those are excellent posts you linked! I am among those who weren't around for the initial posting

_dahne_'s rant, but having read it now, I'm grateful that others were able to comment on it articulately. I'm just so baffled and appalled to even know what to say about it myself.

Thanks. *smile* And, yeah. That post and its initial blush of support were really heartbreaking (not least... well, see my post before this one). I'm glad to see a lot of people see what was wrong with it.

*huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugs*

I'd rather be able to do this personally. :/

So sorry you have to deal with this. Again.

*more hugs*

And those links are great. Have bookmarked them. :D

*hugs you like a hobbit* :)

Thanks for the signal-boost! I'm trying not to get bogged down and angry at that whole mess over yonder, but rather think positively about how better conversations can take place.

I also liked

foc_u's thoughtful takedown of the original clusterfuck. Thanks for the one-stop-shopping for thoughtful discourse!

Also: yay stories!

Hey, thank you again for the wise and sensible link! And I am trying to take joy in how many people don't want people to shut up and go away, you know?

You know, I've recently been spending a lot of time helping my (straight, white, cismale) boyfriend understand the concept of privilege. And I'm amazed at how much he's struggling with it-- the idea that even though he's trying to be nice, he's actually being a dick and hurting people's feelings. And that's with me educating him, someone who cares about him and is reassuring him at every turn.

I can't imagine what it would be to learn about this on the internet, where there isn't always that trust and support, and it IS easier to dismiss it when you don't have to look at anyone when you do it. And I'm a little ashamed to say that a year ago, I might have done the same thing. I have been lucky enough to have wonderful friends and professors to help me learn to check my privileges without getting defensive, but so many people don't have that. And I do feel bad for them.

Being confused and overwhelmed and scared isn't an excuse for being a dick, but it does explain it a little bit. Just goes to show how desperately we need things to change, so that it isn't scary to treat other people like, you know... people.

And your stories always make me happy, whether it be social justice happy or twisted dark happy or anything in between.

*blush* Thank you on my stories. And I really think... this is work all of us have to do, you know? There are things I have been astonished to realize I was doing unconsciously, assumptions I've had to dig out, and I can't possibly be done with this process yet. On the one hand we're all in this together, and on the other, "Shut up already!" won't get us anywhere.

Anyway. :)

Thanks for the links, bb. Especially that last link from

brighteyed_jill. I used to have a lot of those links that were posted at the end, but I lost them with a hard drive crash a couple of years ago and I've been too lazy to search them out. Now, I've got that post tagged on delicious so I won't lose them again.

And, yay, fic!

Oh, you're absolutively welcome. :)

I admit, I've been spending this week saying, "Oh, that

_dahne_'s a tool, oh well, good thing zie's friendless COMMENTS WHAT COMMENTS OF COURSE THERE ARE NO COMMENTS ON THAT POST I'VE GOT MY FINGERS IN MY EARS AND I'M SINGING LALALALA."

*is ashamed*

Aheh, part of me wishes I could adopt such a sensible coping strategy. But I need to say things, I guess. :)

I found dahne's post via your link last night, and was really shocked (although a big part of me knows I shouldn't have been) and very disheartened at how many people gave such unconditional support for its message. I don't quite know what else to say - there's so much wrong with that post it's hard to know where to start - but I wanted to thank you for signalboosting it, and to register my support for you and my disgust with dahne's post.

*beams* Thank you, very much. :)

I honestly don't know how you can deal with this stuff as often and as eloquently as you do. Reading her post and some of the comments is all I have spoons for. I feel incapable of lifting a finger to add a comment, even with a sock-puppet. I recognised a few usernames associated with comments in support of the screed, and it feels like being betrayed. I can't deal with it. All those allegedly cis, white, straight, able, etc., people who allegedly don't have the "right" to be offended or upset or angered by "PC" language--I NEED them on days like these. I can't effectively advocate for myself over issues that make me cry.

I guess I just fundamentally don't get why it is wrong to assume that people generally are interested in being good people, decent people, perhaps even better people. But, apparently, improving onself is a niche interest, like botany, and letting someone know how they could stop inadvertently causing pain all around them is akin to bullying. Grgh. Excuse me while my head explodes.

Oh, and ♥. You're awesome, just so you know.

*shrugs, smiling* I have to. I just... I said in my previous post, a bit melodramatically but quite honestly, "I swear by every molecule of melanin I possess." I have undergone too much because of them to just shut up now, and learned too much about the patterns of injustice to just silently countenance its being inflicted on other people. When I read "I can't effectively advocate for myself over issues that make me cry," I nodded *so* hard, because I have been there, and the least I can do is say something. That's what being an ally is about.

And now I'm blushing a bit. Thank you. :)

<reads

_dahne_'s post

*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

And then the comments. *sigh* Page Two has a lot of good ones, though.

You don't know me, I'm sure, mostly because I'm a lurker, but for this, I have to speak out. I have to say thank you for the signal boost for these links, which have helped me take a step back and take a critical look at WHY

_dahne's post...well, I suppose "failed utterly" is the kindest word for it. I am a woman of several privileges, and while I strongly disagreed with the original post, it wasn't until I was able to read these links that I saw the sheer horror of what <lj user"_dahne_" was saying. Furthermore, they were able to make me think and realize some of the blind spots that I didn't even know I had. Again, thank you very much for helping me educate myself just that much more, even if (as always) I've a ways to go :)

Actually... I've seen you around Reboot fandom saying good things, haven't I?

And goodness, thank you for telling me this! And I wouldn't say you've failed utterly at all. By recognizing that post had problems in the first place and then being willing to find and illuminate your own blind spots, I think you're doing some important and worthwhile things!

Speaking as someone who has painful memories of being just that clueless about my own privilege ("Jeepers, you mean not everybody grew up white, able-bodied and well-off? Wow, and I thought it was hard enough being an unfemmy chick!"), I said what I could on the thread.

Your icon makes me nostalgic. :)

More seriously, thank you, a lot.