Oh fandom. Maybe I will quit you.

[browngirl]

So I was trying not to make this post, but I read too many discussions in short order to keep from doing so.

So I read N. K. Jemisyn's Things People Need to Understand, issue 223.2, which excellently states, "We have to shed this idea that SFF is somehow special. That it is perfect. That it is in any way better than the mainstream society from which it derives. It isn’t. And in fact, SFF’s manifest unwillingness to examine itself is one of the things that makes it worse than the mainstream." [And I just deleted a mini-rant concerning my opinions on the statements she was replying to, which isn't necessary considering this post of mine. So, moving right along...]

So I also read jimhines's Crap People Say About Sexual Harassment, which was further illuminating and depressing. A comment led me to this discussion on "taboo songs' in filk, where a bunch of people proudly proclaimed their Hatred of Censorship and Right to Sing Whatever They Want. It reminded me of the discussions about warnings in fic fandom, where one side doesn't want to be triggered as much and the other said, "you can't warn for every trigger in existence so you shouldn't bother warning for any of them, and asking me to warn is censoring me and I won't stand for that." Same thing here, but with filk. I suppose I benefited from the reminder of why I've left, but it was still disheartening.

Also, I came across the Overheard from the Smof Mailing List tumblr, which may go away soon due to the DCMA take-down notices being issued, and which is further illuminating and depressing as to how many in the backbone of fandom view... I was going to say 'the rest of us', but many of those pushing back against sexism and racism in fandom are just as much part of its backbone as those who view themselves as holding the line against the orc horde. ETA: However, in the comments here there's a discussion of that Tumblr, the accuracy and context of its quotations, and the harm it may have done to its seeming goal.

I was going to say more, but my Littlest Roommate requests my attention. So I'll close with a couple more links that warrant signal-boosting:

Things You Should Know About the Fallout
What Conventions Are and Aren't
Pride and Prejudice and Readercon
American Fandom goes to, err, War

Comments

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

It's just not possible to warn on every triggering subject

*rolls eyes*

Yes, yes, yes, I know. Logically, your position makes a lot of sense. Emotionally, I kind of want to scream that rape is not like balsa wood, and this entry is about where I am emotionally.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the other side of the coin is to sing little to nothing about some strong emotional situations. Is it better not to write a strong anti-abuse song than it is to write and sing it, with a warning to the room before it's sung? (And yes, writing it and releasing it into the wild will almost certainly produce cases where some well-meaning singer will present it WITHOUT a warning, and the triggered folks then become the writer's responsibility, at least in part.)

This is, I think, a place where it's possible for reasonable people to have wildly varying opinions, while agreeing on the core idea that the idea is not, as far as possible, to hurt anyone knowingly or willingly.

I'm doing my best, which is all I can do. Feedback is appreciated.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

The problem is that the other side of the coin is to sing little to nothing

No, IT'S REALLY NOT.

You did see the part where I said, "Logically, your position makes a lot of sense," right? But your reply is an example of what I'm so goddamn tired of. No one is calling for an end to singing, or to flirting, or to reading Heinlein, or whatever else. What I'm tired of is that the first response to "There's a problem here" is not, "Let's figure out what we can do to ameliorate it," but is instead, "But I have a RIGHT to do X" with the followups "those with a problem with it should GTFO" and "We can't completely solve it so why bother doing anything?" and "We'll have to entirely stop doing this fun thing" and ultimately "You just want to destroy fandom." And I'm just fed up with those responses.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I seem to have expressed myself badly.

In no way am I saying "we can't solve it completely so why bother doing anything?" I thought I was in fact saying "let's work out how to ameliorate it" and offering my suggestions (warn on triggery subjects, not glorify atrocious behavior, etc., while asking for further feedback).

My position boils down to two points:

1. I don't want to hurt anyone knowingly or intentionally, and will do what I reasonably can to avoid that.
2. Conversely, in the little art that I do produce, I would like to illuminate the human condition without glorifying behaviors that are unacceptable (most of which come down to hurting someone knowingly or willingly).

Is there any way to reconcile these beyond either warning about triggers, or avoiding probable triggers altogether? (Being aware here that there IS a qualitative difference in triggeriness among subject matter, of course; where to draw the line is a related but separate discussion. So too is behavior when not "on stage"; as I noted earlier.)

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

The human condition is many things. That said, there are differences between talking about a dark facet of the human condition, belittling it, glorifying it, and making jokes about it.

One thing a performer always needs to be mindful of is who's in the audience, yes? A performer who is routinely dismissive of his audience will quickly find that audiences either suffer his performances or decide to walk out and not suffer them any more.

Lots of big-name performers tell stories about their songs, and one of the functions is to warn. Suzanne Vega talks about "My Name is Luca" at concerts, for example. However, a warning does not always have to be a warning as such. It can be a means of setting and managing expectations.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I'm not disagreeing with you -- I think warning for triggers is an excellent idea, and what I do in a comparable situation. I'm frustrated with the wider discussion, how it gets framed and phrased and conceptualized.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I can understand that. Just as with all other fights over idea, I fear it's going to be a long, difficult fight. Two steps forward, one step back, with the need to fight often and hard. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.